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Maedren

Endgame grind revamp

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I know admins don't wanna talk about server pop and endgame grind. But, sice a month (or more), this is the everyday topic.
and how to blame us? These are the most important parts of the game (and the server), they simply cannot be ignored.
and I know that I tend to be a bit aggressive with my comments, but I have come to the conclusion that it is the only way to be heard, otherwise they only tell us "we are working on it" but that work never comes, or it does a truly disappointing way.
anyway, that's is not today's topic. is endgame grind (and a lil server pop).

First of all, instances rewards sucks.
you will ask why.
Well, the goal of making instances day by day is to gather enough materials to craft expedition gear. which is the endgame equipment.
With the current rewards, it takes you about a month to upgrade a piece of equipment from tier 4 to tier 3.
unless you have an army of characters and do instances multiple times a day, which would reduce the time to two weeks, one week?
and on the other hand, in the "hard mode" the ideal is to form a party and complete the instances to obtain more and better rewards.
but that is only in theory, because obviously, in most cases the rewards will be divided among all the members. unless they are a guild and everything goes to a character that ultimately would be practically the same. and the rewards al very low.
And yes, I know. It is the endgame equipment, the most powerful. It is not supposed to be easy to obtain. but it is here that the population of the server has an impact.There is no market, there are less than 50 people playing. and you have to take in count  double logins.
nobody is going to sell materials, and if they do, they will do it at ridiculous prices and the market will become a museum.
I know that they try to make the server as faithful as possible to the original. But that won't work here. We don't have thousands of players. And the original game is designed to be p2w.
We are a private server, we have the possibility of improving where the original game fails and bring changes without so much bureaucracy. don't be a pussy.

So the first proposal is obviously to reduce the costs of endgame items.
This includes expedition gear and some hats, really, nobody is going to kill 100 erzsebets, extra jokers to get a drop of 3% and 100 of other bosses. I've killed about 10 and I'm fed up.
make calculations, use the brain and calculate how long it would take an average player to obtain such equipment.

The second proposal is to make mythril the currency of the server.
Currently it already has some uses such as blacksmith craft, pet evo, enchantment reset (this is expensive af).
go further. make mythril downgradeable.
the possibility of using mythril ores instead zeny for a reset.
mythril ores+oridecon/eluniums for enriched/hd ores instead zeny.
things like this, would make mythril a much more useful material for both early game and endgame.
In addition to that it would be more desired and reactivate a little the economy of the server.
because right now it's something like "oh look, another mythril. useless rock" and you throw it at kafra.

The third proposal is to do something (if possible) with the instances. Besides that the rewards obviously have to be increased, I have had several crash instances. The game disconnects me and there is no way back. In situations like this you simply miss a full day of endgame grind.

and the fourth proposal is something that scares them. add certificates and blacksmith blessings for god sake!
As I said before, right now it is practically impossible to access endgame equipment, much less refine it and even worse enchant it.
Imagine how many months it will cost you to have all your tier 1 equipment and to be broken at +5 using enriched ores.
"Oh shit, I need another three months to try again"
"Oh shit, it broke again"
the blessings are expensive, in the original game they cost two million zeny and two mythril and can only be used in equipment +7 or higher.
but believe me that it is better than farm another three months.
In addition, some instances (to which we still do not have access) drop certificates that ensure a piece of equipment reaches a certain refine rate.
obviously it's only in hard mode.
and obviously it can be adapted to the server in some way.
Hades went on to say that it's like cheating, but I don't see another way to have real access to endgame equipment. or at least a way that is not grind for months and beg all the gods when you manage to have your base piece of equipment, unrefined, without enchanting ...

And finally, this is likely to be reflected in a better economy, attract new and old players and Ragnarok returns to being that competitive game that is supposed to be.
and excuse any misspelling. As you can see, it is not my native language.

PD:mvp griefing rule sucks, I hope you do something about it.
 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Maedren said:

We are a private server, we have the possibility of improving where the original game fails and bring changes without so much bureaucracy.

He is not wrong you know.

In defense of the admins yes, they didn't develop the content, and this 'faithfull to the original' rule is going to be the perdition of the server.
Greetings.

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Helps to add a TLDR section:

1. Endgame grind design is aimed towards a high population server and P2W options. Make endgame progression HARD, not IMPOSSIBLE

2. Reduce Expedition Gear / Headgear quests requirements. Drops are stingy and instances currently suck at giving these drops and would take a slightly above casual player months to get just 1 upgrade (Personally I'd even say 20 crystals per piece would be fine)

3. Give more uses to Mythril/Mythril ore

4. REVAMP INSTANCES PLEASE

5. Blacksmith blessings and +n Refine Certificates

 

Have to say, I strongly agree to most of your points in here. HOWEVER, I feel this endgame design is the key component of what makes zero a different experience, and personally what got me into this server in the first place, second to optioned gear. What we need is not a revamp, but an adjustment to our current server size and no P2W mode.

 As I said in a suggestion I made about the clocktower headgers, the point is to make even possible for players to craft those items, make them a hard task/chore, not a freaking impossible one. The current mechanics of this server are aimed towards a population on the thousands as you said (idk how many k players are on kro on average).

And recently was thinking on suggesting something about your 4th proposal,  blacksmith blessings/+7 certificates. I was personally thinking making like a HARD AF weekly/5day cd PC-Limited quest, something like "bring me 1 mythril + x mvp item drops (think of orc hero medals, mask of tutanidfknow) + x amount of zeny". In that way people can actually get them and cant easily exploit it and overflow the market with +7 items

Edited by JPO
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Everything that JPO summarized would be beneficial to the server. Only thing I'd like to touch up upon is it's getting pretty annoying calling out the devs over and over for lack of updates. Yes, they keep acknowledging things that are wrong and say they will fix it but then it doesn't come in a timely manner which of course is followed by complaints.

 

Look, they're real people. They have other things to take care of in their daily routine. Everything they've done so far has been virtually for free or if anything, done on slave labor wages. If they are awake for 16 hours in a day and commit 6 hours or even 1 hour to updating the server then once again they did something for free, out of their own good will, for the sake of creating fun for others.

So to all you that keep saying "LoL wTF u PromISed uS thIS BUT hVAENt DEIlVERED yET". Screw off. It'll be done when it's done. Pay the devs mortgage/rent/food/utilities/other responsibilities... THEN they can commit all of their time to updating the server. However, doesn't seem like they're interested in being paid for this so.. just sit back and wait.

Edited by Orduna

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I'm oblivious about the P2W stuff so, i might think, HALF of the issues would be fixed by bringing in more players and having stuff here to keep them interested (BG, WOE, etc).

For me in particular, the quests doesn't seem completely impossible, but just thinking i might farm a month killing myself getting the items and then i'm the only player in the server is reeeaaally scary. I sadly have to agree with decreasing the requirements because of this.

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2 minutes ago, Orduna said:

Everything that JPO summarized would be beneficial to the server. Only thing I'd like to touch up upon is it's getting pretty annoying calling out the devs over and over for lack of updates. Yes, they keep acknowledging things that are wrong and say they will fix it but then it doesn't come in a timely manner which of course is followed by complaints.

 

Look, they're real people. They have other things to take care of in their daily routine. Everything they've done so far has been virtually for free or if anything, done on slave labor wages. If they are awake for 16 hours in a day and commit 6 hours or even 1 hour to updating the server then once again they did something for free, out of their own good will, for the sake of creating fun of others.

So to all you that keep saying "LoL wTF u PromISed uS thIS BUT hVAENt DEIlVERED yET". Screw off. It'll be done when it's done. Pay the devs mortgage/rent/food/utilities/other responsibilities... THEN they can commit all of their time to updating the server. However, doesn't seem like they're interested in being paid for this so.. just sit back and wait.

You say that, but think how much time we sink here, only for the server to die, which we are in fact that, dying, i have a month playing and it went from 90 to 30-40, is obvious that loyal players want to protect the time they invested in their equipment and levels, and is unfair to say "pay them" they wanted to build the server, and with that, this comes. We payed with the time we invested in here, nobody is gonna return my month of life playing here.

This should be as expected, if you promise something and doesnt happen, you make a mistake, should be as expected the complains.

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Obviously they are not suggestions that should be followed to the letter. But it is a point to start from. and in general those are the most important points.
there are many others that must be treated. but I feel lazy to write right now so I probably do it tomorrow.

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We do acknowledge the current difficulty of endgame grinding.

A revision of some game aspects like crafting material requirement is considerable.

If anyone would like to add on/share specific ideas on a possible revamp (other than those already posted), feel free to drop a comment.

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Posted (edited)

- Endgame expedition items: Either tone down to almost 2/5 of the original requirements. Or extremely buff the instance rewards for solo a, I'd go for buffing the instance rewards. (also for forging items such as sparkling opals and stuff, since a forged item won't guarantee a good roll, it can be trash and will require a lot of attempts for those endgame forged weapon like shining sword, and don't forget that it has to be +9, drops should be about x4 to x5 from the current drop)

  • Solo x7-10 drop from now
  • Party x20-25 drop (7+ people) from now

- For ores, just implement this below and we're good to go.

- Have shimmering crystals drop from any Champion monsters for about 5% so even if the instance is done for the day, there's still a steady drop for shimmering crystals.

- Endgame headgears (CT midgears, amatsu/louyang): This REALLY NEEDED to be toned down by a lot!

Note: Will edit my comment when I think of something to add.

cc: @Stroheim @Hades

Edited by Minato

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Someone said once that in kro:z, champions mob drop mythril. Maybe something similar can be implemented. for example a very low drop that increases a little depending on the monster level . thus it would cease to be restricted to instances and fever fields. obviously you have to make this material more useful.
As Minato says, adding this kind of material to champion monsters would be great (not just mythril).

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Posted (edited)

Ro supposed to be a grindy rpg if your not up for that just don't play. End game gears should be hard to get , I prefer sticking with official k zero requirements for them,  making it easy to get is not good in long run. 

If every one gets it easy we wont have the same gratification when we get one.

People will lose things to do and will be hungry for more content than you guys can give them eventually making them to quit.

This is like the core zero features, changing it means your not getting the true k zero experience.

Population is a problem that's for sure , focus on player retention and getting new players to server (many ways to do this make a separate thread for this) than changing / nerfing core features.

Just because major chuck of people want them to make it easier to obtain doesnt mean you guys need to agree on this and make the change.

IF this server going to remain true to k Zero experience i suggest not to make major changes to core system, if thats not the case dont advertise this server as true k zero experience then  do what ever  core changes the majority of community wants.

 

 

Edited by Cladeus

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If this server avoid making changes to maintain a "true experience", then say goodbye to him.
You cannot work on player retention if there are no players to retain. At most, you can try to attract more new players and then try to retain them.
In addition, that "true experience" of which you talk, is designed for a server with thousands of players and with P2W mechanics, not for a private server like this.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Maedren said:

If this server avoid making changes to maintain a "true experience", then say goodbye to him.
You cannot work on player retention if there are no players to retain. At most, you can try to attract more new players and then try to retain them.
In addition, that "true experience" of which you talk, is designed for a server with thousands of players and with P2W mechanics, not for a private server like this.

Exactly what he said. 

@Cladeus

If you want that "REAL GRIND" and "REAL EXPERIENCE" you're talking about? Better get that korean account going and go to the official then don't you think? Private servers are around for a reason, one is get some things customized that the official ones can't have. And it's not getting it DUMBED DOWN sort of easy, it's about getting "REASONABLY HARD". 🙂

"Just because major chuck of people want them to make it easier to obtain doesn't mean you guys need to agree on this and make the change." - Right at back you. Having you wanting that "true experience" and hard sort of thing? Go to the official server. We won't even miss a thing about you. Harsh truth. 🙂 You just wanted "WHAT YOU WANT" not even considering the circumstances we are in/the server's in.

"IF this server going to remain true to k Zero experience i suggest not to make major changes to core system, if thats not the case dont advertise this server as true k zero experience then do what ever core changes the majority of community wants." - What's the core of this "zero experience" for you? Is it being it stupidly hard? That's the definition of the Official KRO:Zero without the P2W mechanics. Zero mechanics are the changes MADE from renewal, be it the "custom/random options" found on equipments, "fever" fields, revamped/rebalanced the appropriate skills, instances rebalanced from RENEWAL. There's nothing there in the list that said it's supposed to take months to have even "basic" gears (no cards, I don't want to bring the cards into this). Even if the changes stated here were implemented, I DON'T SEE THESE FEATURES GONE, IS IT? It's still that "true to k Zero experience" you were talking about. If you want that here, better implement the P2W mechanics too don't you think? I'll be happy to spend some cash if that happens, and you'll regret having said that "true to k Zero experience". 🙂

But hey, we're just "many" that wants this change, who knows? This might not be implemented at all, even if the majority of the community wants this change. 🙂

Edited by Minato

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Posted (edited)

@Maedren @Minato

Back at you if you guys don't like hard grind go play servers with high drop rates stop whining about it, remember this is not a high drop rate server. some gears should be hard to get period and not obtainable in short period of time. I'am sure population has an impact on  farming items for end game head gear,staffs etc / having no market for it having said that you have  literally less or zero competition for killing the required mobs with our current population  which is not the case in k zero considering huge population which balances out here.

Thinking that people should have end game gears within 2months of server launch is absurd.

Now  don't say i spend xxxx amount of hours to farm a end game gear to be broken at +5-7 that's pure RNG thats how its supposed to be. You can argue we dont have p2w  so lets add certificates for safe refine up to some level and make it easy to  get +9 end game gear's but that will make many people op in short amount of time. enrich and HD ores added recently is more than enough to upgrade stuff and balances out p2w  aspect on refining just leave it at that.

Mythril is not useless rock its pretty useful for pet evo ,Blue flame  staff etc , if you think evolved pets are useless then you are blind my friend. You all cried Mythril  ore is so hard to farm only few can kill mvp's and shit few weeks back now that they added it to fever mobs now say i got shit tone of mythril ores lying on storage useless  pathetic.

Now  you tell lets add degrade option to the surplus mythril ore's and destroy  one of the  purpose of hard mode instances which is few remaining party content on game , you may say no this change wont affect hard mode instances much since we get crystals and item for blessed forge , but it will make hard mode instances less desirable for people to group up and do since not many go after blessed forge items / crystals atm. Doing so will just promote solo game play which is not good.

Again Reducing mats for blessed forge but why?, to be fair it doesnt require much mats just two mythril ore that's 1-2 hard mode gtb max + appropriate  hard instance/pv for the required stone considering you can solo or a friend or two helps which is pretty much easy to get in a day or two. dont say i need to make shit tone of weapon for that perfect rolls so lets reduce the requirements pathetic! The Rng of those options and desire  to chase after that perfect rolls is what makes this game addictive / fun to play and makes people to play more, making it easy to mass produce those will take the fun out of it.

You keep on making custom changes more and more  you deviate alot from k zero ,not saying this is a bad thing every one benefits from them  but then don't go and say this server is English zero equivalent. Just  make clear what stance this server going to take before making all the custom changes, i would be playing either way unless there is a official english server or a better  private zero server.

Instead of making changes to end game content at this point of time which is not gonna help a bit for server survivability , focus should be on getting more contents like battle grounds, new cities , Server Stability , faster bug fixes / ways to increasing server pop and retaining them.

Final thoughts, from  the people who played k zero what is heard is lack of end game content with slow updates  killed the k zero in less than a year & p2w made most people get +9 exp gear with essence easily .so rushing content , making it easy to get end game gear is not good in long run you will eventually reach a point where you don't have enough content to feed people and people with no clear  objectives /goals in game will lose interest to play.

 

Edited by Cladeus
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On 10/1/2019 at 9:11 AM, Maedren said:

Someone said once that in kro:z, champions mob drop mythril.

I'm gonna need a source for this, this is the first time I've heard about this

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1 hour ago, Rice Owl said:

I'm gonna need a source for this, this is the first time I've heard about this

@Tiburcio

@Cladeus  i never said pet evo is useless. wtf.
if you like the true experience, go play the korean server.
On the other hand, i never said that things have to be easy, it is obvious that the endgame gear has to be difficult to get. but right now it is almost impossible for several reasons that have already been commented enough.
and also, the things I propose are not things that have to be followed to the letter, they are SUGGESTIONS.

So, Mr. true experience, less complaining more suggestions please.

pd: safe refine certificates are instances rewards in the original game btw. and blessings can be crafted with zeny and mythrils. is not a "easy" way for a private server, are true experience.

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Posted (edited)

I'm gonna respond with only 2 but packed statements, "It's not getting it DUMBED DOWN sort of easy, it's about getting "REASONABLY HARD", and "If you like the true experience, go play the Korean server."

Those 2 statements are the only thing needed for all that post you made @Cladeus. ROFL 

 

Edit: So true experience eh? Let's go add safe refine certs for rewards in instances then, as @Maedren said in his post. 🙂

Edited by Minato

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because right now it's something like "oh look, another mythril. useless rock" and you throw it at kafra.

I'm not gonna lie, I thought and did EXACTLY that. I threw that bitch at Kafra and it's been sitting in there for some time now but I got 2 of them, so yay me! lol😅

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