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Card Captor NPC (grants a card after X amount of kills)

Card Captor NPC  

40 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you want this feature implemented on this server?

    • Yes
      16
    • No
      24


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    • Idea description:
      • Card Captor is an NPC that allows you to specify a monster and if you don't find a card after X amount of kills you can return to the NPC and he will give you one. There is no limit to how many times you can use the Card Captor but you can only specify one monster at a time. Only one character on your account can use the Card Captor at a time. Only the monster kills on the character you used the Card Captor with will count towards your kill count. You can check how many kills you have by returning to the Card Captor.
      • This description is from another server that has the Card Captor NPC, the amount of zeny and kills required can be adjusted to whatever works for Ragna0, but preferably not so high that it defeats the purpose of this NPC.
        • Card Captor

           
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          The Card Captor is an NPC located in Izlude (86,148) which can help guarantee card drops.

          Using the Card Captor

          Using the card captor's service provides a sort of "insurance" that a monster you are hunting will drop their card after 1500 kills.

          To use the service, you must pay a fee of 25,000 zeny and specify a monster Name or ID.

          Card Captor Rules

          • Boss/MVP monsters cannot be named. (However, minibosses can be)
          • Card captor will only track your individual kills, and kills from your party members will not count.
          • If you obtain the specified monster's card naturally before 1500 kills are reached, you will receive a chat message stating that Card Captor's service is no longer needed. This will reset the killcount of the chosen monster and you must return to the Card Captor to choose another.
          • If you fail to obtain the card naturally and reach 1500 kills while the service is active, the card will be placed directly in your inventory. The Card Captor's fee will then be increased by 10x (250,000 zeny) for the next 5 days.

          Cancelling the service

          If you wish to change which monster the card captor is helping you with, you must visit him to cancel the current monster. Note that all kills tracked so far will be removed and your zeny fee will not be refunded.

          Cancelling does not incur any cooldown penalty and you can freely begin on another monster if desired.

    • Why is it good?
      • Certain monsters are really annoying to farm for cards and can feel like an endless grind that discourages players and also burns them out in the process. Nothing is more annoying than hunting a monster for days and only getting cards from other monsters on the map. This feature gives players the peace of mind that even if they need to kill a lot of the monster to get the card, at least they're guaranteed one if RNG doesn't go their way.
      • This is especially helpful for new players who are behind in gear. It doesn't necessarily help players gear up faster since you need to have pretty bad luck to return to the Card Captor to receive your guaranteed card, but it does help with burning out since you know you're guaranteed one for your troubles. Also only being allowed to Card Captor one monster at a time helps prevent it from making the card grind too easy. Also allows new players to earn zeny by farming useful cards that the geared population doesn't want to grind for (Racial% Cards, Bapho Jr. Card, Creamy Card, Phen Card, Class Set Cards, etc.). There are very few of these cards being vended in the past couple weeks. Also, this NPC helps control the cost of these cards, because no one should pay more than 4m for any of the cards mentioned before but they are commonly put up to vend at that amount or higher due to scarcity.
      • I think the highest cause of players burning out and quitting is the hardcore grind of Ragnarok Online. Though it's a grinders game at its core, most players aren't willing to commit the amount of time it takes to gear their characters up. Especially on this server, where grinding zeny on Harpy Map or Magma Dungeon 2 to purchase the gear you want is far easier than farming them yourself. What happens when everyone has zeny to buy what they want but nobody has anything to sell? I personally have been trying to purchase a Baphomet Jr Card for 2 weeks and had no luck (and it's not because I don't want to pay fair value for it, I haven't gotten ANY replies from any sellers during this time). I've spent a few hours a day hunting Bapho Jr's and have gotten Hunter Fly, Poporing, and Mantis cards but none of the card my guildmates and I were looking for. I know that's part of the game, but this feature was very well received in the last server I played and did not have a negative impact on the market at all. It actually helped control the cost of cards and helped people gear their characters in a reasonable timeframe. When new content was released, the general player base were better equipped to face the new challenges instead of only the elite few guilds being able to even have a chance to enjoy the higher difficulty content.
    • How urgent is this rate 1-10:
      •  7
    • Will it affect our economy?
      • Yes, but positively. A more active market with more useful items available keeps players interested and keeps prices reasonable. More activity in the #trade channel also makes the server feel more alive. 
    • Will it affect any of our core systems?
      •  I don't know.
    • If we deny it, what might happen?
      •  Players burn out, economy goes stagnant, people quit.
    • If we accept it, who does it benefit the most?
      • All players. In a low population server it's inevitable that markets go stagnant. When there is no buying and selling, people lose interest. 
    • You promise that this idea is for the better of the server in whole: 
      • Yes
  • Like 1

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I like this idea, but it definitely needs to be adjusted for rates - the card drop rate on the server this is from was 0.1%, hence the low kill count.

The cumulative probability to get a card in 1500 kills with 0.1% drop chance is around 77% (if I did my calculations correctly).

If we were to apply the same ratio here, it would take about 5k kills for 77%. That sounds reasonable to me, but I'd probably also increase the fee a bit.

I used this to get the result: https://stattrek.com/online-calculator/binomial.aspx

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Reaching nearly 6k kills on dancing dragons I can kinda agree on the idea, but 1500 kill count is kinda low given that the regular card drop rate 1/3333. So I would agree on a 3k-3.5k Kill count. However it can be easily exploitable, how about parties sharing the kills? like 12 ppl getting a specific card after killing just 1500 mobs? If made available for the guy giving the killing blow, what about the non-killing builds/classes?

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16 minutes ago, JPO said:

Reaching nearly 6k kills on dancing dragons I can kinda agree on the idea, but 1500 kill count is kinda low given that the regular card drop rate 1/3333. So I would agree on a 3k-3.5k Kill count. However it can be easily exploitable, how about parties sharing the kills? like 12 ppl getting a specific card after killing just 1500 mobs? If made available for the guy giving the killing blow, what about the non-killing builds/classes?

Looking at the original description, party kills don't count, only your own.

This very much seems like a solo thing, considering you get nothing out of it if you're not actively killing monsters yourself.

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I agree that something in the 3k kill count range would be good for this server. Anything higher kind of defeats the purpose of it. It's tricky b/c 3K kills is a lot or a little depending on what monster you're hunting. BUT, generally, you wouldn't need to use Card Captor on something that's easy to solo mob so it wouldn't change the market much for those type of cards. Most players would use their Card Captor on a low spawn, single target type monster. Since you can only specify 1 monster at a time per account, it doesn't flood the server with cards as much as you might think.

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Why not just simply increase the card drop rate to a more reliable rate (e.g. 0.1%) instead of making this complex custom system?

I'd rather have a simple solution instead of a complicated solution that could result in more bugs, potential exploits and or crashes/freezes.

 

and a few points on the OP's post:

1-

Quote

What happens when everyone has zeny to buy what they want but nobody has anything to sell?

This won't solve the market situation at all. The truth is, there isn't enough players willing to farm rare items to sell to anyone, specially when zeny has little to no value in this server.

 

2- How about monsters that have the same card but different mob id, (Goblins, Venatus, Dimiks) having it only count on a single monster defeats the purpose no?

 

3- How are you gonna program this part:

Quote

If you obtain the specified monster's card naturally before 1500 kills are reached, you will receive a chat message stating that Card Captor's service is no longer needed.

Does this mean if you pick up the card? or just by having the monster drop it? What if you pick it up and the party's shared item system decides to give it to another person? What if the monster drops it and you're unable to pick it up (stuck on portal, etc), what happens when you drop the card with one char and pick it up with another, or how about when someone else "steals" the card from you? I find it unnecessarily hard to program it without having a way to exploit it.

3.1- If it allows to obtain the card regardless of naturally dropping, it could result in a massive card stock and potential Deviling/Angeling/Ghostring cards, in which you know what'll happen to the WoE/BG scenario.

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8 hours ago, Ninxy said:

Why not just simply increase the card drop rate to a more reliable rate (e.g. 0.1%) instead of making this complex custom system?

I'd rather have a simple solution instead of a complicated solution that could result in more bugs, potential exploits and or crashes/freezes.

 

and a few points on the OP's post:

1-

This won't solve the market situation at all. The truth is, there isn't enough players willing to farm rare items to sell to anyone, specially when zeny has little to no value in this server.

 

2- How about monsters that have the same card but different mob id, (Goblins, Venatus, Dimiks) having it only count on a single monster defeats the purpose no?

 

3- How are you gonna program this part:

Does this mean if you pick up the card? or just by having the monster drop it? What if you pick it up and the party's shared item system decides to give it to another person? What if the monster drops it and you're unable to pick it up (stuck on portal, etc), what happens when you drop the card with one char and pick it up with another, or how about when someone else "steals" the card from you? I find it unnecessarily hard to program it without having a way to exploit it.

3.1- If it allows to obtain the card regardless of naturally dropping, it could result in a massive card stock and potential Deviling/Angeling/Ghostring cards, in which you know what'll happen to the WoE/BG scenario.

I agree with this , I don’t think this idea should be implemented at all , personally I don’t think it will solve anything , I voted no . 

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Increasing drop rate of cards without including mvp/mini-bosses seems more like a prudent and practical idea overall, be it either doubling the chance or making it 0,1.
The main problem i see with the idea is not in the idea itself but the implementation.
Not only would the GMs have to code the whole system from zero and then much likely bug fix it for a while, its just not a good idea when you consider that both already have their hands full and that
simply increasing the drop chance for cards is a much more efficient/fool proof idea to implement.
I will have to say no simply because of the alternative being much more effective and safe.

Edited by OKAiser
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Quote

Why not just simply increase the card drop rate to a more reliable rate (e.g. 0.1%) instead of making this complex custom system?

I'd rather have a simple solution instead of a complicated solution that could result in more bugs, potential exploits and or crashes/freezes.

^ This seems like a more plausible idea.

I completely understand that farming 6k mobs and not receiving a card by then sucks but remember what game you're playing. Don't be so quick to increase the probability of obtaining the card due to either laziness or lack of dedication. It's a low rate server for a reason. If everyone had an assured shot at receiving a card after so many mobs at the cost of zeny, it would be a slap in the face to all the real dedicated players on the server who have struggled killing 6k+ mobs just to obtain 1 card.

I'm not saying it's a terrible idea but I think there are more important things to worry about then the card drop rate.

Edited by Zeph
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I'm writing this response as a former developer/scripter for about 3 ragnarok pre-renewal servers from 5 years ago.

While the idea above from the topic starter makes sense, I'm not sure if this make the server better for the current issue. It was worded poorly, but I can assure you that this idea is doable, just not the most practical and easiest way for a problem/issue we are facing right now.

Sampling the idea above with better words: (coming from another server that I won't name and I recently viewed and has this feature)

image.png.5c4ca2d59f983ae7dc32176950d0f800.png

The explanation above is better when compared from the topic starter (no offense). Logic is simple for this feature. Even if with a party, it's doable but may be has its flaws until we tested it ourselves.

However, while it is doable, it would take time for it to be fully operational and tested, and if implemented will become another zeny sink (this server has a lot of it already, maybe if the server grows or if ever the server will reach its year 1 or 2, this can be good), this will make the purchasing power of zeny lower than as it is now, and the zeny needed for the 'insurance' could dictate the pricing of cards. And also, as there's no available script for this (searched for it from my sources), this can take more precious time from our only 2 GMs and the time could better be invested in implementing remaining updates (such as magma 3, bug fixes, other requests from players *costume stuff cough*, and more promotion of the server).

For me, the best solution and most practical way would be to increase the rate of cards to 0.10% for now or make HE bubble gums/normal bubble gums drop from a monster or make it available to buy with a fixed zeny unaffected by discount (similar with the anvils and other smithing stuff in geffen), 0.10% is not too low nor it's not too high, and the bubble gums won't really make the rate "x2", it'll just make it so that it will roll the dice 2 times, or 3 (for HE gums). And would not affect anything drastically other than an increased drop rate of cards (and other items if bbgum part is chosen).

Edit: Gums can be inserted from a daily quest npc too so people would have a reason to log in everyday, as this can be scripted very easily. Restrictions could be up to Hades/Stroheim as they see fit.

Note: bbgum part just came to me as an idea while writing, please don't kill me for that 

Edited by Minato
Added npc stuff
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No offense taken, it's just my opinion anyway and these things are pretty subjective and up for interpretation. 

I'll be fine with or without Card Captor, it's not really for me or other players who appreciate the grind. I'm all for putting in the required time and effort into a low rate server as long as there's a solid chance the server survives long enough for it to be worth it. It's the casual players I'm worried about as they're the ones who make up the majority of a population. Increasing the rates to 0.1 for cards probably isn't something significant enough to attract new players or keeps casuals active. Something unique like a Card Captor NPC may be more attractive. You could hunt a monster all day for a month and not get what you want even with a drop rate that's tripled. Bad luck is bad luck. The Card Captor gives a clear end in sight and could help casual players power through those stretches of bad luck. The key is finding the balance between things being too easy to obtain that players run out of things to do and things being too hard to obtain that players give up.

You guys are right though, there are better things that would help retain existing players and attract new ones. Something that promotes party play would definitely be helpful. When you stop seeing LFM recruitments you should be worried about the longevity of the server!!

Anyway, just my 2 cents!

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Well, I symphatize with your bapho jr. man, I know where you're coming from but do you have anything to say about the counter-suggestions @eung? Points of improvement or such, and whatnot? 😃

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i wouldn't really be happy with .1% drop rate, more dedicated players will reap the benefits on an unholy level compared to how much it would benefit the casual players. Cards were never supposed to be farm-able, it was a freak chance that you might get one. we all lived that way at one time. i would be comfortable with DOUBLING the card drop rate to .06%. i mean... its double. sometimes you walk into orc dungeon get a card on the first kill. sometimes it takes forever. we already have MVP cards on this young server. I just don't know, it seems like one of those things that would bite us in the ass later on.

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Note that my 0.1% was just an example of a more consistent rate of card drops. Also there's a big difference between a lazy player and a casual player, I doubt that the remaining casual players even wants the 0.1% card drop change. The main point of this server is how they want to make the server resemble as close as possible to their official counterpart. You seem to think that's the sole reason as to why such "casual" players decided to quit. Here are some more reasons the server has such a low amount of players: the slow pace of the updates, bugs that takes a while to fix, crashes/freezes that haunt your exp bar, lack of content (basically things to do in the server), the lack of server advertisement, the lack of proper documentation of the patches (it's a russian roulette on what's actually changed every patch). Imagine if this server brought such inconsistent/controversial changes (like the MVP Griefing lately) without any discussion with the community? That's another reason players will add to the "why i quit r0" list.

However, despite talking shit about the server, this is still the only server that had the balls to follow Zero's path. Yes I understand that GMs are actual human beings with life and job, they can't do everything perfectly. Yes I understand that kRO Zero has low amounts of content. Yes I'm aware they're taking care of the server advertisement with the streamers. I don't care how long they'll take to add more content, as long as it comes as a content, not as a bug. But can the community wait 2 weeks for something? No they can't. Because what they want is entertainment. It's not because they can't gear or anything, it's because there's no reason to do so.

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OH GOD, THIS IS EVERYTHING I EVER WANTED. I am so unlucky sometimes i rage at the game and myself. But i would like to make some additions: 

  • Different cards demand different kill count: 1.5k is ok for some, but some really used should go up as much as 7.5k. I think any RO player understands why. Some cards are very build specific and thus have a very low price/use.
  • Diferent cards should require different amount of zenny too. The reason is simple, and is the same as above. The ammount should start at 200k, in my opinion.
  • Casual players deserve (a bit) of love too, they are necessary to make the server populated. For this, i suggest making it a higher space of time. Maybe give players from 2 to 4 weeks, which would vary by the same mean as different kill count for each card.
    • In the same branch, i belive it would be better to make this usable only once or twice per week, i know this may not be interesting for hardcore players at first, but if people drop too much cards, it will reduce what they are worth in the market and when you happen to have a full build, you will understand the disavantage when trying to sell.
  • It wouldnt be hard to make similar monster, which drop the same card, pull each other ID in order to count them all to the kill count.

 

There is also a few points i have think of, but am not really sure:

  • Make the quest acc wide, so this makes that kill counts with diferent characters will add up and even then you cant make it many times with the same account.
  • Maybe cards adquired this way could be untradable. If you drop a card in the process, it would be normal. Unfortunately, this would make the game more solo, thus, i think in the end its bad for the community.

 

 

 

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I couldn't support this idea even if it cost 50mil and 20,000 kills.

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No.
Let the server die w/o any change because I'm not open minded and think I'm worth more than a healthy playerbase. If you do this, I'll leave, and the server is gonna die because of that. :^)

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3 hours ago, nanaboo said:

No.
Let the server die w/o any change because I'm not open minded and think I'm worth more than a healthy playerbase. If you do this, I'll leave, and the server is gonna die because of that. :^)

Althought i too read this mind set in some comments, using this kind of argument wont help our sake. 

I even think its a best solution to stop playing for a while and, when they leave - causing us to be a majority - or when the server restart, we revote the matter.

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This is an interesting feature, but I disagree with the suggestion.

  1. I do not think that this server is the kind of server that would implement such a highly customized feature.  This game in general is supposed to be a grind-heavy game.  I understand the frustration of killing 6k+ mobs and receiving no reward, though.  I also understand that some games may have a feature like this by default.
  2. This feature would significantly benefit those that have more time to play.  Many of us can only play for a few hours a day.
  3. As an alternative, I suggest increasing the rates to 5x (actually, I believe all rates should be 5/5/5).  This maintains an equal opportunity for all players, while keeping the challenge and great reward of card hunting.
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41 minutes ago, Mintchi said:

This is an interesting feature, but I disagree with the suggestion.

  1. I do not think that this server is the kind of server that would implement such a highly customized feature.  This game in general is supposed to be a grind-heavy game.  I understand the frustration of killing 6k+ mobs and receiving no reward, though.  I also understand that some games may have a feature like this by default.
  2. This feature would significantly benefit those that have more time to play.  Many of us can only play for a few hours a day.
  3. As an alternative, I suggest increasing the rates to 5x (actually, I believe all rates should be 5/5/5).  This maintains an equal opportunity for all players, while keeping the challenge and great reward of card hunting.

I find your opinion rather interesting. I can only play on weekend and think this would help me alot. I would still not get full build anytime soon, but it feels like i would have some assurance of my little time. 

Why do you think it wouldnt benefic us with little time and only those with more time? Due to the time limit to complet the "quest"?

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